You'll thank me later

I agree with this post by Matthew Garrett.

I am quite convinced that most of the communities that I have known are vulnerable to people who are good manipulators of people.

Also, in my experience, manipulation by negating, pushing, or reframing the boundaries of people tends not to be recognised as manipulation, let alone abusive behaviour.

It's not about physically forcing people to do things that they don't want to do. It's about pushing people, again and again, wearing them out, making them feel like, despite their actual needs and wants, saying "yes" to you is the only viable way out.

It can happen for sex, and it can happen for getting a patch merged. It can happen out of habit. It can happen for pretty much anything.

Consent culture was not part of my education, and it was something I've had to discover for myself. I assume that to be a common experience, and that pushing against boundaries does happen, even without malicious intentions, on a regular basis.

However, it is not ok.

Take insisting. It is not the same as persisting. Persisting is what I do when I advocate for change. Persisting is what I do when the first version of my code segfaults. Insisting is what I do when a person says "no" to me and I don't want to accept it.

Is it ok to insist that a friend, whom you think is sick, goes and gets help?

Is it ok to insist that a friend, whom you think is sexually repressed, pushes through their boundaries to explore their sexuality with you?

In both cases, one may say, or think, trust me, you'll thank me afterwards. In both cases, what if afterwards I have nothing to thank you for?

I see a common pattern in you'll thank me afterwards situations. It can be in good faith, it can be creepy, it can be abusive, and most of the time, what it is, is dangerously unclear to most of the people involved.

I think that in a community like Debian, at the level of personal interaction, Insisting is not ok.

I think that in a community like Debian, at the level of personal interaction, "You'll thank me afterwards" is not ok.

When I say it's not ok I mean that it should not happen. If it happens, people must be free to say "stop". If it doesn't stop, people must expect to be able to easily find support, understanding, and help to make it stop.

Just like when people upload untested packages.

Pushing against personal boundaries of people is not ok, and pushing against personal boundaries does happen. When you get involved in a new community, such as Debian, find out early where, if that happens, you can find support, understanding, and help to make it stop.

If you cannot find any, or if the only thing you can find is people who say "it never happens here", consider whether you really want to be in that community.